The Corrections Minster says the status quo has got to go, when it comes to measures for reducing the Maori prison population.
Kelvin Davis has revealed a new strategy this morning aiming to lower the number of Maori in prison by a third over 15 years.
There will be three extra treatment units for high-risk offenders and a new resettlement centre.
Davis says people who need to be locked up will be - but it's about how they're dealt with behind bars, that counts.
The minister says just about everyone gets released eventually, and they need to emerge better people than when they walked in.
However, CEO of the Howard League for Penal Reform Mike Williams told Mike Hosking he sees a lot of good intentions in the new strategy but is yet to see any practical steps.
"You've got a very high level kind of look at why this happens and relate it back to cultural matters. I want to see the next iteration of this where you say 'what do you actually do'."