The Education Minister says polytechs aren't in good shape and are getting worse.
The tertiary sector has had a chance to push its case to Chris Hipkins over his education changes, particularly on polytechs.
The Tertiary Education Union protested outside Parliament yesterday and also met with Chris Hipkins over what it says are two years of appeals without any action.
Hipkins told Mike Hosking 13 of the country's 16 polytechs are now in deficit.
"It's just not a sustainable model. There is big financial trouble in our polytechs up and down the country and we have to change if we are going to fix that."
He says polytechs are in a state of constant change and restructuring, which isn't getting to the heart of the problem.
"I have some sympathy for that, that's why we're taking on the reform programme. If I was convinced the polytech sector could right itself without further intervention, then I would be letting them go to it."